Snyder Family 2016 - Person Sheet
NameBernard I Of Septamania , Margrave of Septamania 
Birthabt 795
Death844
FatherWilliam I (D Of Toulouse) (~765-812)
MotherWitburga Of Hornbach
Notes for Bernard I Of Septamania , Margrave of Septamania
Notes:
ES III:731.
Per Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners" (329:39), he was Count of Autun, Margrave of Septamania, the famous Chamberlain of LOUIS THE PIOUS (RIN 1212), executed 844, Aachen.
On 15 Dec 1997, Todd Farmerie posted the ancestry of TERESA ALFONSO (RIN 2401) based on the latest research. This generation is confirmed in that posting as a possibility.
1. William*
2. Bernard II "Plantapilosa"
3. Sancha of_Septamania
ES III:731.
Per Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners" (329:39), he was Count of Autun, Margrave of Septamania, the famous Chamberlain of LOUIS THE PIOUS (RIN 1212), executed 844, Aachen.
On 15 Dec 1997, Todd Farmerie posted the ancestry of TERESA ALFONSO (RIN 2401) based on the latest research. This generation is confirmed in that posting as a possibility.
1. William*
2. Bernard II "Plantapilosa"
3. Sancha of_Septamania
Notes for Dhuoda (Spouse 1)
Notes:
ES III:731.
On 15 Dec 1997, Todd Farmerie posted the ancestry of TERESA ALFONSO (RIN 2401) based on the latest research. Farmerie tentatively shows Sancho, Duke of Gascony (RIN 2134), as Dhouda's father.
Don Stone posted to gen-medieval-L@@rootsweb.com on 24 Sep 1997:
Subject: Dhuoda's parentage "Dhuoda, wife of Bernard, Duke of Septimania, has recently been shown to have been a daughter of Sancho-Lupus, duke of Gascony, and his wife (probably a daughter of Aznar Galindo, count of Aragon). Dr. Renee Mussot-Goulard, professor of history at the Sorbonne, established this parentage for Dhuoda, and Ronald F. Malan summarizes the arguments and presents a genealogy in "The Ancestry of Dhuoda, Duchess of Septimania" in the Spring 1997 issue (vol. 11, no. 1) of The Genealogist."
I think this was from Todd Farmerie: . "OK, here's the deal. In subsequent generations, the name Aznar came to be used in the Gascony family. That suggests an intermarriage (assuming, of course, that the Counts of Aragon were the only family of equivalent social status, and hence likely to be selected for a marriage partner, which used the name Aznar). It then comes down to a question of chronology as to whether she was Aznar's sister or daughter. My source (the imfamous Vajay charts) have chosen one solution, and Malan the other. I am pretty sure there is no contemporary reference that says Sancho married the daughter/sister of Aznar, Count of Aragon, and that it is all supposition based on nomenclature."
"Todd A. Farmerie" posted to GEN-MEDIEVAL-L-request@@rootsweb.com on 01 Mar 1999 Subject: Re: Wife of Sancho-Lupus of Gascogne: .. "I am not all that comfortable with several of the identifications which appear in the Malan article [Ronald F. Malan: "The ancestry of Dhouda, Duchess of Septimania", from The Genealogist XI, Spring, 1997.], (and likewise for the Vajay one). When reissue a new and improved Teresa AT, I had planned to remove most of this Gascon material. All of this is at the very fringes of what can reasonably be called genealogy rather than simply an exercise in creative writing."
David Greene posted to GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@@rootsweb.com on 04 Mar 1999 Subject: Dhuoda Revisted: . "With the various comments on Dhuoda of Septimania and the Gascons, let me throw another published work into the pot (and ask for
forgiveness for the image). . Ronald Malan's article in the journal _The Genealogist_ [which is not _The American Genealogist_ (TAG)] for Spring 1997 (Vol. 13, No. 1) presents the theory of Dr. Renee Mussot-Goulard that Dhuoda was a daughter of Sancho-Lupus, duke or "Prince" of Gascony. Mussot-Goulard suggests that Agen was used in an unusual way, as a dowry from brother to sister, and that Dhuoda had been given Agen "by Sancho-Lupus of Gascony her brother" [Malat's family summary gives her brothers named Aznar-Sanchez and Sancho-Sanchez "Mitarra" but not explicitly
Sancho-Lupez]. . In the 75th-anniversary issue of TAG (July/October 1997, Vol. 72, nos. 3-4), Nat Taylor published a superb article showing that the claimed Davidic descent of Saint William of Toulouse was, at best, wishful thinking and a strained interpretation of the evidence. He shows Dhuoda's husband, Bernard of Septimania as a son of St. William and throws cold water on the Mussot-Goulard/Malat theory of Dhuoda's Gascon descent by showing that the claimed use of Agen as a "sister-dowry" is problematical. (I hope that Nat will correct me if I have misstated his opinion.) . Nat shows Heribert as a brother of Dhuoda's husband, Bernard of Septimania. It is at this point that I want to cite a recently published work by Donald C. Jackman, who had already written _The Konradiner: A Study in Genealogical Methodology_ (Frankfurt am Main, 1990). Jackman's new work is _Criticism and Critique: Sidelights on the Konradiner_, published as the first volume in the edited series Prosopographica et Genealogica (Oxford, 1997), edited by K. S. B. Keats-Rohan and Christian Settipani as a publication of Keats-Rohan's Unit for Prosopographical Research. Jackman writes (pp. 135-36): . "According to the Astronomer, Odo of Orleans was a first cousion (consobrinus) of a Heribert who was blinded in the course of Lothar's uprising in 830; this Heribert was the frater of Margrave Bernard of Septimania (d. 844). In the Manual of Bernard's wife Dhuoda, Heribert is described as the avunculus (maternal uncle) of Bernard's sons. The term 'avunculus' does not easily extend to paternal uncle (which 'patruus' serves). But 'frater' extends readily to 'brother-in-law. Clearly, Dhuoda was Heribert's sister, and one of their parents was a sibling of Odo's mother, that is Waldrada. . In her Manual, Dhuoda also sets down the names of her husband's relatives for the purpose of commemoration. Most of them are discovered in the foundation charter of Gellone together with their relationships to the founder of that monastery, Margrave Guillaume [St. William]. Two persons who cannot be identified in the Gellone charter are found at the end of Dhuoda's list: Wernher and Rotlint. Joachim Wollasch has suggested that these were Dhuoda's parents, and one may concur, because the parents of Dhuoda might easily be first cousins of her father-in-law and thus deserve a place in the list. While their identities are far from clear, there is some further justification for assigning Wernher as father of Dhuoda and Heribert. Not long after the county of Blois had passed to the Robertiner, a viscount of Blois emerges with the name Werngaud. Assuming that he acquired his position by a descent from earlier countrs, his Wern-name suggests lineal relationship with Wernher. On this basis of this juxtaposition, one might regard Wernher as count of Blois or at least as son or grandson of a Blesois count." [Jackman provides further onomastic arguments.] . The Wallasch work mentioned above is "Eine adlige Familie des fruehen Mittelalters. Ihr Selbstverstaendnis und ihre Wirklichkeit," _Archiv fuer Kulturgeschichte_, 39 (1957): 181-85 {I have rendered the umlauts with an _e_)."
Luke Stevens, after analyzing all the above notes concludes : . "รก On the parentage of Dhuoda and Heribert (RIN 5762), I think you have been led astray by that one post. The article cited seems to have been written before Mussot-Goulard's discovery of a document identifying Dhuoda as a sister of Sancho of Gascony. The objections surrounding the tenure of Agen that Greene alludes to actually apply to Dhuoda's putative granddaughter Aminia (RIN 2203) rather than to Dhuoda herself. And the meaning of avunculus and frater is subject to another interpretation, still the most favored one, that Heribert and Bernard were half-brothers, by different mothers, as explained in your old notes under Heribert."
1. William*
2. Bernard II "Plantapilosa"
3. Sancha of_Septamania
ES III:731.
On 15 Dec 1997, Todd Farmerie posted the ancestry of TERESA ALFONSO (RIN 2401) based on the latest research. Farmerie tentatively shows Sancho, Duke of Gascony (RIN 2134), as Dhouda's father.
Don Stone posted to gen-medieval-L@@rootsweb.com on 24 Sep 1997:
Subject: Dhuoda's parentage "Dhuoda, wife of Bernard, Duke of Septimania, has recently been shown to have been a daughter of Sancho-Lupus, duke of Gascony, and his wife (probably a daughter of Aznar Galindo, count of Aragon). Dr. Renee Mussot-Goulard, professor of history at the Sorbonne, established this parentage for Dhuoda, and Ronald F. Malan summarizes the arguments and presents a genealogy in "The Ancestry of Dhuoda, Duchess of Septimania" in the Spring 1997 issue (vol. 11, no. 1) of The Genealogist."
I think this was from Todd Farmerie: . "OK, here's the deal. In subsequent generations, the name Aznar came to be used in the Gascony family. That suggests an intermarriage (assuming, of course, that the Counts of Aragon were the only family of equivalent social status, and hence likely to be selected for a marriage partner, which used the name Aznar). It then comes down to a question of chronology as to whether she was Aznar's sister or daughter. My source (the imfamous Vajay charts) have chosen one solution, and Malan the other. I am pretty sure there is no contemporary reference that says Sancho married the daughter/sister of Aznar, Count of Aragon, and that it is all supposition based on nomenclature."
"Todd A. Farmerie" posted to GEN-MEDIEVAL-L-request@@rootsweb.com on 01 Mar 1999 Subject: Re: Wife of Sancho-Lupus of Gascogne: .. "I am not all that comfortable with several of the identifications which appear in the Malan article [Ronald F. Malan: "The ancestry of Dhouda, Duchess of Septimania", from The Genealogist XI, Spring, 1997.], (and likewise for the Vajay one). When reissue a new and improved Teresa AT, I had planned to remove most of this Gascon material. All of this is at the very fringes of what can reasonably be called genealogy rather than simply an exercise in creative writing."
David Greene posted to GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@@rootsweb.com on 04 Mar 1999 Subject: Dhuoda Revisted: . "With the various comments on Dhuoda of Septimania and the Gascons, let me throw another published work into the pot (and ask for
forgiveness for the image). . Ronald Malan's article in the journal _The Genealogist_ [which is not _The American Genealogist_ (TAG)] for Spring 1997 (Vol. 13, No. 1) presents the theory of Dr. Renee Mussot-Goulard that Dhuoda was a daughter of Sancho-Lupus, duke or "Prince" of Gascony. Mussot-Goulard suggests that Agen was used in an unusual way, as a dowry from brother to sister, and that Dhuoda had been given Agen "by Sancho-Lupus of Gascony her brother" [Malat's family summary gives her brothers named Aznar-Sanchez and Sancho-Sanchez "Mitarra" but not explicitly
Sancho-Lupez]. . In the 75th-anniversary issue of TAG (July/October 1997, Vol. 72, nos. 3-4), Nat Taylor published a superb article showing that the claimed Davidic descent of Saint William of Toulouse was, at best, wishful thinking and a strained interpretation of the evidence. He shows Dhuoda's husband, Bernard of Septimania as a son of St. William and throws cold water on the Mussot-Goulard/Malat theory of Dhuoda's Gascon descent by showing that the claimed use of Agen as a "sister-dowry" is problematical. (I hope that Nat will correct me if I have misstated his opinion.) . Nat shows Heribert as a brother of Dhuoda's husband, Bernard of Septimania. It is at this point that I want to cite a recently published work by Donald C. Jackman, who had already written _The Konradiner: A Study in Genealogical Methodology_ (Frankfurt am Main, 1990). Jackman's new work is _Criticism and Critique: Sidelights on the Konradiner_, published as the first volume in the edited series Prosopographica et Genealogica (Oxford, 1997), edited by K. S. B. Keats-Rohan and Christian Settipani as a publication of Keats-Rohan's Unit for Prosopographical Research. Jackman writes (pp. 135-36): . "According to the Astronomer, Odo of Orleans was a first cousion (consobrinus) of a Heribert who was blinded in the course of Lothar's uprising in 830; this Heribert was the frater of Margrave Bernard of Septimania (d. 844). In the Manual of Bernard's wife Dhuoda, Heribert is described as the avunculus (maternal uncle) of Bernard's sons. The term 'avunculus' does not easily extend to paternal uncle (which 'patruus' serves). But 'frater' extends readily to 'brother-in-law. Clearly, Dhuoda was Heribert's sister, and one of their parents was a sibling of Odo's mother, that is Waldrada. . In her Manual, Dhuoda also sets down the names of her husband's relatives for the purpose of commemoration. Most of them are discovered in the foundation charter of Gellone together with their relationships to the founder of that monastery, Margrave Guillaume [St. William]. Two persons who cannot be identified in the Gellone charter are found at the end of Dhuoda's list: Wernher and Rotlint. Joachim Wollasch has suggested that these were Dhuoda's parents, and one may concur, because the parents of Dhuoda might easily be first cousins of her father-in-law and thus deserve a place in the list. While their identities are far from clear, there is some further justification for assigning Wernher as father of Dhuoda and Heribert. Not long after the county of Blois had passed to the Robertiner, a viscount of Blois emerges with the name Werngaud. Assuming that he acquired his position by a descent from earlier countrs, his Wern-name suggests lineal relationship with Wernher. On this basis of this juxtaposition, one might regard Wernher as count of Blois or at least as son or grandson of a Blesois count." [Jackman provides further onomastic arguments.] . The Wallasch work mentioned above is "Eine adlige Familie des fruehen Mittelalters. Ihr Selbstverstaendnis und ihre Wirklichkeit," _Archiv fuer Kulturgeschichte_, 39 (1957): 181-85 {I have rendered the umlauts with an _e_)."
Luke Stevens, after analyzing all the above notes concludes : . "รก On the parentage of Dhuoda and Heribert (RIN 5762), I think you have been led astray by that one post. The article cited seems to have been written before Mussot-Goulard's discovery of a document identifying Dhuoda as a sister of Sancho of Gascony. The objections surrounding the tenure of Agen that Greene alludes to actually apply to Dhuoda's putative granddaughter Aminia (RIN 2203) rather than to Dhuoda herself. And the meaning of avunculus and frater is subject to another interpretation, still the most favored one, that Heribert and Bernard were half-brothers, by different mothers, as explained in your old notes under Heribert."
1. William*
2. Bernard II "Plantapilosa"
3. Sancha of_Septamania